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# Memes: The New Face of Propaganda
- URL: https://fightingmatters.com/memes-the-new-face-of-propaganda/
- Published: 2025-09-23T22:43:56.000Z
- Updated: 2026-10-12T05:17:04.000Z
- Description: In this episode of Fighting Matters, Steve Kwan (BJJ Mental Models) and Jesse Walker (Rough Hands BJJ) welcome special guest Dr. Derek Jones. Derek is a BJJ black belt, innovation educator, and retired philosophy professor whose work bridges martial arts, culture, and political thought.
- Author: Fighting Matters
- Tags: Podcast, Video, Media & Propaganda

In this episode of Fighting Matters, Steve Kwan (BJJ Mental Models) and Jesse Walker (Rough Hands BJJ) welcome special guest Dr. Derek Jones. Derek is a BJJ black belt, innovation educator, and retired philosophy professor whose work bridges martial arts, culture, and political thought. Together, the team explores how memes evolved from internet jokes into one of the most powerful tools of propaganda in modern politics.  
  
From Richard Dawkins’ Selfish Gene to AI-driven meme floods, from the shifting Overton Window to the weaponization of humor, this conversation digs into how memes shape culture, spread extremism, and even destabilize democracy. Along the way, we discuss comedy as cover, the dangers of nihilism, and whether memes can still be reclaimed for good.  
  
The takeaway: memes aren’t harmless entertainment; they’re a frontline in the battle over culture, politics, and truth itself.  
  
⸻  
  
👥 Featuring:  
  
Derek Jones — BJJ black belt, social innovator, philosopher  
Steve Kwan — @BJJMentalModels  
Jesse Walker — Rough Hands BJJ  
  
⸻  
  
🧠 Topics We Cover:  
  
• What memes really are: from Dawkins to digital culture  
• How memes spread faster than truth, and why they stick  
• The Overton Window and cultural manipulation  
• Comedy, plausible deniability, and “just joking” politics  
• AI meme factories and the flood of propaganda  
• The Joker, fascism, and the politics of nihilism  
• Can memes be used for good?  
  
⸻  
  
📖 Chapters:  
  
[00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&ref=fightingmatters.com) Introduction to Fighting Matters  
[01:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=61s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Meet Derek Jones: Black Belt & Philosopher  
[03:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=195s&ref=fightingmatters.com) What Is a Meme, Really?  
[07:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=433s&ref=fightingmatters.com) How Memes Shape Personality and Culture  
[09:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=593s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Why Anyone Can Now Create Viral Propaganda  
[14:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=850s&ref=fightingmatters.com) AI and the Future of Meme Warfare  
[20:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=1214s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Memes, Overton Windows, and Shifting Norms  
[23:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=1435s&ref=fightingmatters.com) The Plausible Deniability of Sharing Memes  
[28:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=1703s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Comedy as Cover: From Pepe to Rogan  
[33:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=2023s&ref=fightingmatters.com) The Joker, Fascism, and Mocking the System  
[37:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=2271s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Memes as News and the COVID Meme Boom  
[41:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=2496s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Is Society Getting Dumber, or Just Faster?  
[46:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=2809s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Offloading Memory to AI: Help or Harm?  
[53:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=3217s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Wall-E vs. Terminator: The Real AI Dystopia  
[55:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=3349s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Human Responsibility in an Automated World  
[59:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=3549s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Can Memes Still Be Used for Good?  
[01:02:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=3746s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Levity, Connection, and Fighting Back with Humor  
[01:03:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE%5FtOb6t38I&t=3788s&ref=fightingmatters.com) Closing Thoughts